Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 106
04/05/2008 11:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB202 | |
| SB201 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 202 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 201 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 201-PUBLIC FINANCE WEBSITE 11:50:49 AM CHAIR LYNN announced that the last order of business was CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 201(FIN), "An Act relating to the establishment and maintenance of an Internet website providing public finance information; and identifying the information to be available on the Internet website." 11:51:07 AM MICHELLE SYDEMAN, Staff, Senator Bill Wielechowski, Alaska State Legislature, presented SB 201 on behalf of Senator Wielechowski, prime sponsor. She paraphrased her written introduction, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]: The intent of SB 201, the Alaska Open Government Act, is to mandate creation of a free, searchable website that provides Alaskans with easy access to detailed information on state spending. Such a website will foster better understanding of state operations and, ultimately, ensure that funding is directed to the state's most important needs. Creation of similar websites is occurring across the country. In 2006, President Bush signed the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act. This Act calls for the creation of a searchable website for federal contracts and grants of more than $25,000. The website recently went on-line at www.federalspending.gov. Interestingly, this legislation was introduced years ago by a bipartisan team of four U.S. senators, including senators John McCain and Barak Obama. Last year, five states -- Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Minnesota, and Hawaii -- passed legislation mandating the creation of on-line databases with comprehensive information on their state's expenditures. Efforts are underway in 17 other states to pass so- called "taxpayer transparency acts," including New Mexico, Colorado, Washington, and North Dakota. A national consensus is emerging, supported by advocates from both ends of the political spectrum-- from Ralph Nadar to Grover Norquist--that taxpayers should be able to easily track and help direct government spending. Real accountability and good decision-making require an informed public, a public with access to information on government spending at their finger tips. While Senator Wielechowski first learned about the benefits of "taxpayer transparency acts" at a National Conference of State Legislatures meeting last August, this is an issue that Governor Palin has also embraced. The senator applauds her for the commitment made by her Administration to begin implementation of such a system. This bill would put the requirement for a free, publicly searchable database in statute, so that all future governors will show the same commitment to transparency and accountability. This is good public policy, worthy of being enshrined in statute. SB 201 also provides guidance as to the type of information that a public finance website should contain. While the Administration's current website can best be described as an "on-line checkbook," this bill calls for inclusion of information that will provide a context for daily expenditures. For example it calls for a listing of total state expenditures over the past 10 years and a comparison of revenues received versus funds expended. It also requites an accounting, which can be in the form of a simple bar chart, of the total number of state employees over each of the past 10 years. This information is currently available in other state publications, but will be compiled on-line and presented in clear manner for all Alaskans to understand. The fiscal note for accomplishing this is zero, as it can be accomplished by existing webmasters and finance staff. In closing, we ask for your support of SB 201 and the right of all Alaskans to easily accessible and detailed information on how their dollars are being spent. 11:55:02 AM MS. SYDEMAN, in response to a question from Representative Doll, said most state expenditures over $1,000 would be listed. 11:55:41 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he would be extremely surprised if the Department of Administration (DOA) could do anything without requesting money for it. He warned, "And if it's not in this fiscal note, I can almost guarantee you that when we get the operating budget next year, there'll be something in there to implement this." He said he would pay extreme attention to this issue, and he said he would like to hear from the administration how it plans to "accomplish this without spending one dime." 11:56:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG directed attention to the reference in the bill to the amount of $1,000, found on page 4, line 10. He said while that language limits expenditures greater than $1,000, it does not seem to limit income sources over $1,000. He asked if it is the sponsor's intent to require only category receipts, or "are you going to do every little $20 dollar[s]?" He suggested having $1,000 "on that, too" to avoid being "inundated with stuff." 11:57:22 AM MS. SYDEMAN stated her understanding that the proposed online checkbook component would be updated on a monthly basis; therefore, all the monthly funds received would be aggregated on a monthly basis into certain categories. She suggested that Ms. Garnero might be able to offer a better answer. 11:58:46 AM CHRIS NELSON, Alaskans for Tax Reform, testified on behalf of Alaskans for Tax Reform in support of SB 201. He noted that Americans for Tax Reform, in Washington, D.C., also supports the proposed legislation. He echoed that this measure is being considered in other states. He said information in Alaska is available but difficult to find. He said putting together a single, searchable web portal will streamline the research process, resulting in people's increased involvement in their state government. 11:59:35 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG mentioned a report card related to state governments, and he said he thinks the proposed bill will increase Alaska's marks for getting information available to the public. MR. NELSON concurred that the passage of the proposed bill would result in Alaska's getting high marks from people who evaluate the efficiency of state government and "its commitment to making information available." Furthermore, he suggested that even higher marks would come from members of the public who "have honest questions, but really don't know where to go to find the answers." The bill would provide a web portal with access to more information, which "will help ensure a more informed, and therefore more active, electorate, and a more active population." 12:01:23 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG directed attention to language in Section 5 of the bill, which read, "the list shall be updated monthly or annually, as specified." He asked if the sponsor means "as specified in the Act, here." MS. SYDEMAN answered yes. She explained that there are certain types of information that would be provided annually - the "bigger picture ... snapshots" - to help provide a context. Then the ongoing checkbook would be updated monthly. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG explained that he would like it stated for the record that "as specified" means in the Act, rather than "by some agency." MS. SYDEMAN responded, "In the Act." 12:02:18 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON directed attention to page 3, lines [7- 8], which read: (2) expenditures for the preceding month, including (A) the name and location of any person to whom payment was made; REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if that would include welfare and child enforcement checks, which could "possibly render someone capable of tracking someone to do them harm." 12:02:51 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI, Alaska State Legislature, testifying as prime sponsor of SB 201, explained that those expenditures are excluded, as shown in Section 3, on page 4, line 14. 12:03:22 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG questioned if there might be another type of payment to an individual that would not be categorized as state or federal assistance, for example, a permanent fund dividend payment. He said he thinks Representative Johnson has touched upon an important point - the consideration to protect people from, for example, stalkers. 12:03:50 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN directed attention to page 4, lines 3-7, which read as follows: (d) Nothing in this section requires disclosure of information that is confidential under state or federal law. However, the Department of Administration shall provide aggregated or summarized information describing confidential revenue and expenditures if the aggregated or summarized information continues to protect confidentiality. REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked, "Would that protect the confidentiality of information?" SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI answered yes. He offered his belief that permanent fund dividend information has already been made confidential in statute. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if a private contractor with the state could say he/she does not want payments released because of confidentiality problems. 12:04:23 PM MS. SYDEMAN said the Department of Law is currently reviewing "the 20 different categories of information" to determine which types would be considered confidential and which would not. She offered her understanding that a person would have to "have solid legal ground" to argue that certain information should be kept confidential. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON described "the constitution" as being solid, legal ground, guaranteeing him the "right to confidentiality." CHAIR LYNN queried, "But this does not really identify anybody by name, does it?" MULTIPLE UNIDENTIFIED VOICES confirmed that the bill does exactly that. 12:05:54 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI explained, for example, that a contractor who takes a bid out with the state would be listed. He said that is exactly his intent. He clarified, "You lose your right to privacy the moment you enter in your contract with the state." He reiterated that the citizens of the state have a right to find out what the state is spending money on. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said he does not think legal opinion would trump the Constitution of the State of Alaska. He said he thinks a contractor may have some grounds to have his/her privacy protected, unless he/she signs that right away. He added, "And I'm pretty sure that you can't contract away your constitutional right." SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI confirmed that a person has - through the Constitution of the State of Alaska - a right of privacy; however, the citizens also have the right to find out what their state is spending money on. If the state is spending money on public contracts, then that information is public. He pointed out that citizens currently have that right and can file a freedom of information request; the bill does not change that public aspect of the information, but only proposes to compile it into one, concise database. CHAIR LYNN indicated that the state's money is the people's money. 12:07:02 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG told Representative Johnson that a person can contract away his/her state rights by means of "Miranda warnings." 12:07:22 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI, in response to Representative Johansen, reconfirmed that the bill would not expand the amount of information obtained by the state. In response to Chair Lynn, he said the perfect example has to do with the operating and capital budgets of the state. He explained that it is difficult to find items in the budget, and SB 201 proposes to create a searchable database to help locate those items. 12:09:09 PM KIM GARNERO, Director, Division of Finance, Department of Administration, in response to Representative Gruenberg's prior question as to how revenues would be presented on the proposed web site, related that while expenditures would show who was paid, revenues would not show who [the state] got the money from, but would show "the flavor of money by the account code." REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked, "And it will be large aggregates?" MS. GARNERO answered, "Absolutely aggregate." REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked what the cost to other states has been to run this program. MS. GARNERO recollected that State of Missouri has spent over $100,000 to create a database; however, she said the State of Alaska would be using a simpler version on Excel, which is a tool already available to the state. She said, "I have had no complaints from any of the people I've talked to - on what we've posted on the web site so far - that they've not been able to access the information." MS. GARNERO related that the state now uses a version which provides a "checkbook detail," and the proposed legislation would add on to that. She mentioned an annual financial report, and said: Publishing those -- this is already on the web as a document as a whole. Publishing in this public finance (indisc. -- coughing) is no additional cost. MS. GARNERO said the division has been working on its data warehouse - called, "the Alaska Date Enterprise Reporting System" - since July of 2006, and would not have been able to produce its Excel spreadsheets without that new system. 12:11:38 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said his pet peeve is redundancy. He asked if it would be possible, if the bill passes and all the information becomes available on a single web site, to avoid creating two or three separate reports relating to the same information. He used the Alaska Department of Fish & Game in an example. 12:13:07 PM MS. GARNERO replied that the information that the division is publishing on the web site is coming from its statewide accounting system. She said, "If [these] tickets generate a revenue, which I don't know if they do or not, then those revenues would be reflected in our statewide accounting system. We'd publish from there; it would have nothing to do with [the Alaska Department of] Fish & Game." Regarding the annual financial report, she said the division delivers a copy to every legislator's office each January. She asked if value was obtained by having a hard copy of that report. 12:14:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated that he finds value in having a hard copy and wants the division to continue to disperse them. 12:14:18 PM MS. GARNERO noted that the division prints fewer than 400 copies. 12:14:29 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he does not want to get specific about the publications; he clarified that he just wants to know whether the proposed web site can "supplant other forms of getting the information to the public." 12:15:09 PM MS. GARNERO responded that the division would not add employees to produce the proposed web site, and she said she doubts "it will be freeing anybody up." She stated, "It's a publication of existing information on a public finance web site." 12:15:32 PM CHAIR LYNN closed public testimony. 12:15:41 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to report CSSB 201(FIN) out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSSB 201(FIN) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
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